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	<title>Comments on: Nostalgic for ArcView 1?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/07/13/nostalgic-for-arcview-1/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/07/13/nostalgic-for-arcview-1/</link>
	<description>Geospatial Technology, Web Mapping and Spatial Services</description>
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		<title>By: Steve&#8217;s Little world &#187; Forget av 1 - I want my ArcInfo Workstation</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/07/13/nostalgic-for-arcview-1/#comment-1839</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve&#8217;s Little world &#187; Forget av 1 - I want my ArcInfo Workstation]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=858#comment-1839</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Some are calling for the return of ArcView 1 or something simple - forget that! I want Workstation and Coverages. Some of you might say it is archaic and didn&#8217;t have the slick gui - well for the &#8220;elites&#8221; that part doesn&#8217;t matter. [...] ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Some are calling for the return of ArcView 1 or something simple &#8211; forget that! I want Workstation and Coverages. Some of you might say it is archaic and didn&#038;#8217;t have the slick gui &#8211; well for the &#038;#8220;elites&#038;#8221; that part doesn&#038;#8217;t matter. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: GIS Dirtbag &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Paul Ramsey can&#8217;t decide if he wants &#8220;ordinary&#8221; ESRI users around</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/07/13/nostalgic-for-arcview-1/#comment-1838</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GIS Dirtbag &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Paul Ramsey can&#8217;t decide if he wants &#8220;ordinary&#8221; ESRI users around]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 03:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=858#comment-1838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Paul Ramsey seems pretty sure that he has no time for &#8220;the masses&#8221;:  &#8220;We donâ€™t want to market to the masses, they would probably think our products stink! (Not enough documentation, low consistency between products, bad â€œfirst impressionâ€ for non-technical installs.)&#8221; [...] ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Paul Ramsey seems pretty sure that he has no time for &#038;#8220;the masses&#038;#8221;:  &#038;#8220;We donâ€™t want to market to the masses, they would probably think our products stink! (Not enough documentation, low consistency between products, bad â€œfirst impressionâ€ for non-technical installs.)&#038;#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Ramsey</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/07/13/nostalgic-for-arcview-1/#comment-1837</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Ramsey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 02:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=858#comment-1837</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the subject of the &quot;masses&quot; and open source geospatial and ESRI, an interesting irony occurs to me: while the masses have no uses for open source software (or ESRI software, generally), services that the masses *do* have a use for are far more likely to be built on open source software than ESRI software (for reasons of scalability (technical and fiscal), customizability, etc).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the subject of the &#8220;masses&#8221; and open source geospatial and ESRI, an interesting irony occurs to me: while the masses have no uses for open source software (or ESRI software, generally), services that the masses *do* have a use for are far more likely to be built on open source software than ESRI software (for reasons of scalability (technical and fiscal), customizability, etc).</p>
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		<title>By: James Fee</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/07/13/nostalgic-for-arcview-1/#comment-1836</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Fee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 01:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=858#comment-1836</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;We donâ€™t want to market to the masses, they would probably think our products stink! (Not enough documentation, low consistency between products, bad â€œfirst impressionâ€ for non-technical installs.)&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Paul, some say that about ESRI products these days.  Then again you are probably right, Google Earth or NASA World Wind will be that low end of the pyramid anyway.  They seem to want that place to themselves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;We donâ€™t want to market to the masses, they would probably think our products stink! (Not enough documentation, low consistency between products, bad â€œfirst impressionâ€ for non-technical installs.)&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Paul, some say that about ESRI products these days.  Then again you are probably right, Google Earth or NASA World Wind will be that low end of the pyramid anyway.  They seem to want that place to themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Ramsey</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/07/13/nostalgic-for-arcview-1/#comment-1835</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Ramsey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jul 2006 23:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=858#comment-1835</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think I fall in Sean&#039;s camp. I am not sure what the reaction of people @ ESRI-UC would be to an open source GIS presentation, but my guess would be:

uDig - &quot;That&#039;s not nearly as good as ArcMap, or even ArcView. Why is it relevant to me if it does not do what my current tools do now?&quot;

PostGIS - &quot;That is interesting, but can I connect to it with ArcMap? Talk to me when you have something works exactly like ArcSDE but is free.&quot;

Mapserver - &quot;That seems a little complex to configure, and there is no out-of-the-box application that looks any good.&quot;

CIO - &quot;What do you think, technical advisor?&quot; Advisor - &quot;It is all half-baked, sir.&quot;

So James, I think we do want tools to be used by the elite. And only the elite can really appreciate the parts of the tools that are substantially better than the proprietary equivalents -- the openness, the modularity, the scriptability, the configurability. There is not a lot of point in &quot;breaking into the marketplace&quot; when there is no per-unit incentive to do so.  

We don&#039;t want to market to the masses, they would probably think our products stink! (Not enough documentation, low consistency between products, bad &quot;first impression&quot; for non-technical installs.) 

But, we do need to talk to the elites. They might find OSS useful, and they might actually find the community stimulating and contribute back. Perhaps the ESRI developers conference would be a better venue for an alternative forum, if one were inclined to think about such things.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I fall in Sean&#8217;s camp. I am not sure what the reaction of people @ ESRI-UC would be to an open source GIS presentation, but my guess would be:</p>
<p>uDig &#8211; &#8220;That&#8217;s not nearly as good as ArcMap, or even ArcView. Why is it relevant to me if it does not do what my current tools do now?&#8221;</p>
<p>PostGIS &#8211; &#8220;That is interesting, but can I connect to it with ArcMap? Talk to me when you have something works exactly like ArcSDE but is free.&#8221;</p>
<p>Mapserver &#8211; &#8220;That seems a little complex to configure, and there is no out-of-the-box application that looks any good.&#8221;</p>
<p>CIO &#8211; &#8220;What do you think, technical advisor?&#8221; Advisor &#8211; &#8220;It is all half-baked, sir.&#8221;</p>
<p>So James, I think we do want tools to be used by the elite. And only the elite can really appreciate the parts of the tools that are substantially better than the proprietary equivalents &#8212; the openness, the modularity, the scriptability, the configurability. There is not a lot of point in &#8220;breaking into the marketplace&#8221; when there is no per-unit incentive to do so.  </p>
<p>We don&#8217;t want to market to the masses, they would probably think our products stink! (Not enough documentation, low consistency between products, bad &#8220;first impression&#8221; for non-technical installs.) </p>
<p>But, we do need to talk to the elites. They might find OSS useful, and they might actually find the community stimulating and contribute back. Perhaps the ESRI developers conference would be a better venue for an alternative forum, if one were inclined to think about such things.</p>
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		<title>By: matt m</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/07/13/nostalgic-for-arcview-1/#comment-1834</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[matt m]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jul 2006 03:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=858#comment-1834</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Besides the ones you can name off the top of your head, what other free GIS &quot;viewers&quot; out there can make up the complicated bottom of that pyramid?

I think there is a fair case to be made for more diversity in tools as you go towards the bottom of the pyramid. At the top, you basically have people making data from physical collections. In the middle you have people doing analytics both for their own  purposes and to produce derivative data. At the bottom of the pyramid you have people using that data to run their business and live their life...there&#039;s a lot more variety there than there is at the top where the basic tasks are making vector and raster products.

It&#039;s more important to have good integration at the bottom than it is to all use the same clients. As long as we can all collaborate on the data- it won&#039;t matter much what we do it with.

I do wonder about ArcReader though- it really didn&#039;t take off. I was looking into this company called TerraGo who are pushing a format called geopdf. It sounds a lot like ESRiIs PMF format, except it&#039;s actually readable with just AcrobatReader (to do much gis stuff, you need a Acrobat plugin.)  I don&#039;t if it will take off, but maybe the real bottom of the pyramid is that maps are just in everything- to googlemaps mashups on every website, to office documents, to phones...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Besides the ones you can name off the top of your head, what other free GIS &#8220;viewers&#8221; out there can make up the complicated bottom of that pyramid?</p>
<p>I think there is a fair case to be made for more diversity in tools as you go towards the bottom of the pyramid. At the top, you basically have people making data from physical collections. In the middle you have people doing analytics both for their own  purposes and to produce derivative data. At the bottom of the pyramid you have people using that data to run their business and live their life&#8230;there&#8217;s a lot more variety there than there is at the top where the basic tasks are making vector and raster products.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s more important to have good integration at the bottom than it is to all use the same clients. As long as we can all collaborate on the data- it won&#8217;t matter much what we do it with.</p>
<p>I do wonder about ArcReader though- it really didn&#8217;t take off. I was looking into this company called TerraGo who are pushing a format called geopdf. It sounds a lot like ESRiIs PMF format, except it&#8217;s actually readable with just AcrobatReader (to do much gis stuff, you need a Acrobat plugin.)  I don&#8217;t if it will take off, but maybe the real bottom of the pyramid is that maps are just in everything- to googlemaps mashups on every website, to office documents, to phones&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David Wright</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/07/13/nostalgic-for-arcview-1/#comment-1833</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Wright]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=858#comment-1833</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yah;
&quot;You can&#039;t get fired for buying ESRI.&quot;

But your CFO might fire you when you try to pay your maintenance, but that is a whole other issue.

You might see less people in the anti-ESRI camp if the overall costs were not so high for acquisition and support.

just my couple of pennies...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yah;<br />
&#8220;You can&#8217;t get fired for buying ESRI.&#8221;</p>
<p>But your CFO might fire you when you try to pay your maintenance, but that is a whole other issue.</p>
<p>You might see less people in the anti-ESRI camp if the overall costs were not so high for acquisition and support.</p>
<p>just my couple of pennies&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: James Fee</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/07/13/nostalgic-for-arcview-1/#comment-1832</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Fee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=858#comment-1832</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Atanas:

All true statements and I almost added it to my blog post.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atanas:</p>
<p>All true statements and I almost added it to my blog post.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Atanas Entchev</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/07/13/nostalgic-for-arcview-1/#comment-1831</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Atanas Entchev]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=858#comment-1831</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;You can&#039;t get fired for buying IBM.&quot;
&quot;You can&#039;t get fired for buying Microsoft.&quot;
&quot;You can&#039;t get fired for buying ESRI.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You can&#8217;t get fired for buying IBM.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;You can&#8217;t get fired for buying Microsoft.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;You can&#8217;t get fired for buying ESRI.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: James Fee</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2006/07/13/nostalgic-for-arcview-1/#comment-1830</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Fee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:42:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zhun.pair.com/spatiall/blog/?p=858#comment-1830</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A CIO can&#039;t be a fanboy?  

Honestly when you talk to them sometimes you get that feeling.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A CIO can&#8217;t be a fanboy?  </p>
<p>Honestly when you talk to them sometimes you get that feeling.</p>
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