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	<title>Comments on: Google, you have to be kidding. Right?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2008/04/14/google-you-have-to-be-kidding-right/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2008/04/14/google-you-have-to-be-kidding-right/</link>
	<description>Geospatial Technology, Web Mapping and Spatial Services</description>
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		<title>By: John Smith</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2008/04/14/google-you-have-to-be-kidding-right/#comment-9083</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 16:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=1789#comment-9083</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now they have released a Google Earth plugin for web browsers. Gotta love those guys :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now they have released a Google Earth plugin for web browsers. Gotta love those guys <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: rkgeorge</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2008/04/14/google-you-have-to-be-kidding-right/#comment-9082</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rkgeorge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 22:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=1789#comment-9082</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I guess GML like sdts before it never made it off the ground very far. Even though KML is extremely popular it could sure use some better client side event capabilities. 

In the meantime MS seems to be headed done the track of merging WPF/XML and 3D terrain streaming that would make kml2.2 more or less anachronistic. OGC needs to push ahead toward KML3.0 with some kind of client event capability.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess GML like sdts before it never made it off the ground very far. Even though KML is extremely popular it could sure use some better client side event capabilities. </p>
<p>In the meantime MS seems to be headed done the track of merging WPF/XML and 3D terrain streaming that would make kml2.2 more or less anachronistic. OGC needs to push ahead toward KML3.0 with some kind of client event capability.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Gorman</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2008/04/14/google-you-have-to-be-kidding-right/#comment-9081</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sean Gorman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=1789#comment-9081</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think from a practical stand point we are going to see standards increasingly bottoms up instead of top down.   The days of a big committee spending years coming up with a 300 page specification are dwindling.  GeoRSS is a great example of a successful bottoms up creation of a standard that has seen very rapid adoption.  Things that are easy to use and based on practical implementations in the wild are going result in defacto standards that drive the market - IMHO]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think from a practical stand point we are going to see standards increasingly bottoms up instead of top down.   The days of a big committee spending years coming up with a 300 page specification are dwindling.  GeoRSS is a great example of a successful bottoms up creation of a standard that has seen very rapid adoption.  Things that are easy to use and based on practical implementations in the wild are going result in defacto standards that drive the market &#8211; IMHO</p>
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		<title>By: GOD</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2008/04/14/google-you-have-to-be-kidding-right/#comment-9080</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GOD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 09:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=1789#comment-9080</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[they charge you already. they&#039;ve put your spatial and thematical profile in the advertising cluster  C64Z8CO2 and sold it to their customers. 
it was very valuable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>they charge you already. they&#8217;ve put your spatial and thematical profile in the advertising cluster  C64Z8CO2 and sold it to their customers.<br />
it was very valuable.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2008/04/14/google-you-have-to-be-kidding-right/#comment-9079</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 05:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=1789#comment-9079</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s interesting to see all the perspectives voiced on this thread.  For me - the bottom line is that no new or emerging spatial-related functions or services will ignore Google (not that they were) via KML integration.  Love &#039;em or hate &#039;em; ignoring Google is not good business.

I&#039;m not partial to any GIS flavor over another; whatever is best for the problem at hand is the best one to use.  However, Google has found it&#039;s way onto my desktop - into my web browser - and onto my blackberry and I didn&#039;t pay a dime.  
It just works.  

Of course, the cynic in me is just waiting for Google to start charging for new API keys. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting to see all the perspectives voiced on this thread.  For me &#8211; the bottom line is that no new or emerging spatial-related functions or services will ignore Google (not that they were) via KML integration.  Love &#8216;em or hate &#8216;em; ignoring Google is not good business.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not partial to any GIS flavor over another; whatever is best for the problem at hand is the best one to use.  However, Google has found it&#8217;s way onto my desktop &#8211; into my web browser &#8211; and onto my blackberry and I didn&#8217;t pay a dime.<br />
It just works.  </p>
<p>Of course, the cynic in me is just waiting for Google to start charging for new API keys. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Schmidt</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2008/04/14/google-you-have-to-be-kidding-right/#comment-9078</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Schmidt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=1789#comment-9078</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[AlbertW: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;Google/Keyhole could have worked with OGC to make GML better for their needs, but ended up created their own format.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Bullshit. OGC would never have approved of changing GML to match the needs that KML meets. The use of feature-based styling is completely antithetical to everything that OGC has pursued for the past several years, and core to KML. 

There was no way for OGC to evolve something like KML. There *is* nothing else like KML in the Geospatial world: there is no language which combines geometry + attributes and style/visualization rules in one format, and that&#039;s the key thing that KML is all about.

The &#039;feature&#039; part (which maps to GML) is close enough to GML that it is essentially as easy to support as another format of GML. (I&#039;ve not  yet seen any evidence that anyone actually supports *all* GML, only their particular flavor.) The style bits that make KML difficult to support don&#039;t *exist* anywhere else within OGC, so it&#039;s not &#039;another format&#039;, it&#039;s &#039;a visualization format&#039;: no others exist in the GeoSpatial space. Everyone else (even ESRI!) seperates these aspects out.

You can argue all day over whether feature-based styling and the combination of content and styling makes sense, but you can&#039;t claim that the right move was to try to force something like KML through OGC channels: they&#039;d be fighting for another 10 years if they hadn&#039;t gained more usage than all of WMS/WFS/SLD together on the public web *first*, before pushing through OGC.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AlbertW: </p>
<blockquote><p>Google/Keyhole could have worked with OGC to make GML better for their needs, but ended up created their own format.</p></blockquote>
<p>Bullshit. OGC would never have approved of changing GML to match the needs that KML meets. The use of feature-based styling is completely antithetical to everything that OGC has pursued for the past several years, and core to KML. </p>
<p>There was no way for OGC to evolve something like KML. There *is* nothing else like KML in the Geospatial world: there is no language which combines geometry + attributes and style/visualization rules in one format, and that&#8217;s the key thing that KML is all about.</p>
<p>The &#8216;feature&#8217; part (which maps to GML) is close enough to GML that it is essentially as easy to support as another format of GML. (I&#8217;ve not  yet seen any evidence that anyone actually supports *all* GML, only their particular flavor.) The style bits that make KML difficult to support don&#8217;t *exist* anywhere else within OGC, so it&#8217;s not &#8216;another format&#8217;, it&#8217;s &#8216;a visualization format&#8217;: no others exist in the GeoSpatial space. Everyone else (even ESRI!) seperates these aspects out.</p>
<p>You can argue all day over whether feature-based styling and the combination of content and styling makes sense, but you can&#8217;t claim that the right move was to try to force something like KML through OGC channels: they&#8217;d be fighting for another 10 years if they hadn&#8217;t gained more usage than all of WMS/WFS/SLD together on the public web *first*, before pushing through OGC.</p>
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		<title>By: AlbertW</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2008/04/14/google-you-have-to-be-kidding-right/#comment-9077</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AlbertW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=1789#comment-9077</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael:  My issue with it all is KML wasn&#039;t needed.  Google/Keyhole could have worked with OGC to make GML better for their needs, but ended up created their own format.  Now we&#039;ve got yet an format that I have to support in my day job.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael:  My issue with it all is KML wasn&#8217;t needed.  Google/Keyhole could have worked with OGC to make GML better for their needs, but ended up created their own format.  Now we&#8217;ve got yet an format that I have to support in my day job.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Jones</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2008/04/14/google-you-have-to-be-kidding-right/#comment-9076</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Jones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=1789#comment-9076</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In a very real sense the &quot;HTML and KML&quot; analogy comes from me, so I should take the heat that misunderstanding may have caused. I said it one year ago at the OGC meeting where we offered and then began the KML=&gt;OGC process and I&#039;ve been saying it ever since. 

Our meaning, which many people understand, is that the broad acceptance of KML due to Earth &amp; Maps provides the opportunity for all Earth browsers to rally around a shared markup while competing on features and data. We likened this to the Mosaic/Netscape/IE  and HTML situation where different products could share the [mostly] same markup language. Our idea was to do better than that by having the standards process get started early and by subjugating our own commercial preferences in exchange for making a standard that other companies and even countries could embrace.

It has worked well so far. ESRI, Microsoft, NASA&#039;s World Wind, and Matt Giger&#039;s EarthBrowser all visualize KML, Adobe and others have tools to edit it, and many companies have tools to generate it. Microsoft even has &lt;a href=&quot;http://virtualearth.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns%212BBC66E99FDCDB98%2114516.entry&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;reason to claim&lt;/a&gt; that they can visualize it better than Google Maps. This thrills me in that the debate is not a divisive battle between 20 alternative formats (a la Word, WordPerfect, ...) nor is it a single dominant format as closely held IP (Word again.) Instead, we have the Google approach of being open and welcoming at the moment of our strength, a move designed to empower broader use of GIS  and mapping by billions of Web users and the million or so traditional GIS users.

While some who&#039;ve posted here may disagree, I think this bold step has been the right thing to do.  The world we&#039;re working to create is one almost exactly modeled on the role of HTML as in industry organizing principle, but in this case, for geospatial visualization.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a very real sense the &#8220;HTML and KML&#8221; analogy comes from me, so I should take the heat that misunderstanding may have caused. I said it one year ago at the OGC meeting where we offered and then began the KML=&gt;OGC process and I&#8217;ve been saying it ever since. </p>
<p>Our meaning, which many people understand, is that the broad acceptance of KML due to Earth &amp; Maps provides the opportunity for all Earth browsers to rally around a shared markup while competing on features and data. We likened this to the Mosaic/Netscape/IE  and HTML situation where different products could share the [mostly] same markup language. Our idea was to do better than that by having the standards process get started early and by subjugating our own commercial preferences in exchange for making a standard that other companies and even countries could embrace.</p>
<p>It has worked well so far. ESRI, Microsoft, NASA&#8217;s World Wind, and Matt Giger&#8217;s EarthBrowser all visualize KML, Adobe and others have tools to edit it, and many companies have tools to generate it. Microsoft even has <a href="http://virtualearth.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns%212BBC66E99FDCDB98%2114516.entry" rel="nofollow">reason to claim</a> that they can visualize it better than Google Maps. This thrills me in that the debate is not a divisive battle between 20 alternative formats (a la Word, WordPerfect, &#8230;) nor is it a single dominant format as closely held IP (Word again.) Instead, we have the Google approach of being open and welcoming at the moment of our strength, a move designed to empower broader use of GIS  and mapping by billions of Web users and the million or so traditional GIS users.</p>
<p>While some who&#8217;ve posted here may disagree, I think this bold step has been the right thing to do.  The world we&#8217;re working to create is one almost exactly modeled on the role of HTML as in industry organizing principle, but in this case, for geospatial visualization.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisW</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2008/04/14/google-you-have-to-be-kidding-right/#comment-9075</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ChrisW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=1789#comment-9075</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d place KML somewhere between GeoRSS and GML myself, but what do I know?  And I&#039;m not sure if HTML is necessarily an accurate comparison either, as KML at least embodies some spatial content in machine-accessible form, whereas HTML is basically just about presentation but knows nothing about content.  
A bit like some major software companies we could mention...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d place KML somewhere between GeoRSS and GML myself, but what do I know?  And I&#8217;m not sure if HTML is necessarily an accurate comparison either, as KML at least embodies some spatial content in machine-accessible form, whereas HTML is basically just about presentation but knows nothing about content.<br />
A bit like some major software companies we could mention&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: SeanG</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2008/04/14/google-you-have-to-be-kidding-right/#comment-9074</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SeanG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=1789#comment-9074</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let me get this straight, KML is/was a proprietery version of the open GML but now is an open standard?  My head hurts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me get this straight, KML is/was a proprietery version of the open GML but now is an open standard?  My head hurts.</p>
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