Comments on: That looks like a GIS map

By: Anterra

Anterra — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:18:14 +0000

A note: GIS is more than making maps. It is an analysis tool with many outputs from 3d models to crystal reports. Maps are only a subset (albeit a significant subset) of what is produced at any one time.

Moreover I’ve found that to really maximize the map you need an in depth familiarity with the field. If you’re making a geological map, you need a geologist, if you’re making a forestry map you need a forester etc…

A lot of maps are probably esrified because we have a situation where two specialists are working to a compromise and we have people who are specialists such as geologists and foresters who are using the software in house to to make their own maps.

By: Chris M.

Chris M. — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:59:02 +0000

Did anyone else see the discussion board at the last ESRI conference about the GIS certificate being a false industry standard? I am starting to agree with that posting. Increasingly I am seeing first hand people with the P after their name who can hardly open arcmap let alone tell you how many files make up a shapefile. Perhaps this certificate program needs a good second (or maybe first) look before it establishes itself as a ‘standard”

By: ChrisW

ChrisW — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:43:14 +0000

You’re welcome!

By: John from Jerzee

John from Jerzee — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:50:49 +0000

Thank you for your time.

By: ChrisW

ChrisW — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:27:40 +0000

John: “I still find it imperative for GIS departments to be led by multi-talented people with excellent personal and technical skills. Not IT proâ€™s who choose a profession that helps them avoid people…”

Couldn’t agree with your first statement more. Unfortunately, your second statement seems to hint at one of the reasons why you’re having trouble persuading your bosses of the value of your own personal skills, old boy.

As for the lack of understanding of professional skills in public sector GIS, it sounds pretty bad in NJ, but then it’s probably not much different from public sector anything else, anywhere else, as far as I can tell. But instead of complaining about it (since the mid-1990s?), why not do something about it? Either find a way to demonstrate the value of your professional skills to your Dear Leaders (show them how a decent cartographer could improve their tax maps etc), or start your own consultancy to prove you can make money through giving them a better service, or find a job where those skills are better appreciated. Life’s too short to spend it bitching about work!

I’m not a DBA, by the way – those guys really don’t have any personal skills .

By: John from Jerzee

John from Jerzee — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:38:26 +0000

ChrisW, With all due respect. The post is about disastorus cartography, not database adminstration.
Eventhough Human Resources, and Personnel Departments have no clue what ‘GSI’ is. I still find it imperative for GIS departments to be led by multi-talented people with excellent personal and technical skills. Not IT pro’s who choose a profession that helps them avoid people. “My computer’s my best friend” (generalization). From reading this post it does seem that many GIS organizations a led very poorly. In my home state, GIS became a new program in the early/mid-90′s many of the government agencies just plucked someone from another department and installed them as GIS Czar. To this date, GIS is not used for anything other than a simple viewer in NJ. We have no meaning when it comes to tax maps, environmental regulations, or property disputes. In most cases, We are out lobbied by the surveyors who are written in to so many laws and regulations it makes me want to puke! (tangent)

By: Chris C.

Chris C. — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:31:27 +0000

@Kos

That works both ways – I see a lot of degrees/diplomas adorning people’s walls – doesn’t guarantee they know what they’re doing and that they need to rely on the uneducated underlings to get anything done

By: KoS

KoS — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:24:15 +0000

@Chris….just maybe John has been unlucky to have ran into the ole saying. It’s not what you know, it’s who you know.

It still happens. Some people experience it or see, way too often. Not everyone in a position of authority has “earn” it.

KoS

By: ChrisW

ChrisW — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:04:32 +0000

John from Jerzee:
Don’t want to irritate you too much (honestly!), but I was struck by your remarks that “too many IT specialists and environmental science professionals are leading GIS organizations. They leave little opportunity for Geographers and Cartographers to lead the fundamentals that they have formal training in.”

Why do you think these unqualified people (in your terms) are apparently more successful than geographers or cartographers in reaching those leading positions in GIS organisations? What do you think they are they offering their organisations/customers, that the Geo/Carto graduates are not?

By: ChrisW

ChrisW — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:03:07 +0000

John from Jerzee: Guess I’ll have to irritate you some more, too. GIS is getting bigger, so although I’m sure you’re absolutely right about the importance of cartography training and experience at your end of the spectrum, it may not do you much good in other areas of GIS. As an IT person trying to convert to GIS (via an MSc), I’ve already seen plenty of GIS people who have not the first clue about organising or accessing large volumes of spatial (or non-spatial) data, something which is bread-and-butter to an old Oracle DB person like me. Similarly, I am working with a local GIS consultancy who are delighted to find a student on an MSc in GIS who actually knows anything at all about software design. I guess it depends how you define “GIS”, eh? But the customer will probably be more interested in whether or not you/we can get the job done well and on time/budget, rather than in our diplomas and white coats.