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	<title>Comments on: Licensing on the GeoWeb</title>
	<atom:link href="http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2009/04/12/licensing-on-the-geoweb/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2009/04/12/licensing-on-the-geoweb/</link>
	<description>Geospatial Technology, Web Mapping and Spatial Services</description>
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		<title>By: geographika &#187; GIS and Licensing for Developers</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2009/04/12/licensing-on-the-geoweb/#comment-11387</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[geographika &#187; GIS and Licensing for Developers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:10:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=2642#comment-11387</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] this is against a backdrop of web mapping (aka the geoweb) APIs from Google and Microsoft which are provided for free, along with fast, free, background [...] ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this is against a backdrop of web mapping (aka the geoweb) APIs from Google and Microsoft which are provided for free, along with fast, free, background [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: WhatsYourPlace &#187; Blog Archive &#187; 30 Top Mapping Blogs</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2009/04/12/licensing-on-the-geoweb/#comment-11386</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[WhatsYourPlace &#187; Blog Archive &#187; 30 Top Mapping Blogs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2009 17:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=2642#comment-11386</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Spatially Adjusted (2067) - fairly technical GIS blog by professional James Fee - recommended: Licensing issues on the Geoweb [...] ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Spatially Adjusted (2067) &#8211; fairly technical GIS blog by professional James Fee &#8211; recommended: Licensing issues on the Geoweb [...]</p>
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		<title>By: keith</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2009/04/12/licensing-on-the-geoweb/#comment-11385</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[keith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=2642#comment-11385</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you have an arcview license of ArcGIS and want more functionality, look at ET Geotools. For $195, you get most of the ArcInfo functions. I highly recommend this software. http://www.ian-ko.com/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you have an arcview license of ArcGIS and want more functionality, look at ET Geotools. For $195, you get most of the ArcInfo functions. I highly recommend this software. <a href="http://www.ian-ko.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ian-ko.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Archie Belaney</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2009/04/12/licensing-on-the-geoweb/#comment-11384</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Archie Belaney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=2642#comment-11384</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another way to view the situation -

Think of SaaS vs fat licenses as Mass transport vs Cars

If mass transit were available wherever you wanted to go, most folks would be unlikely to buy cars. But since it ain&#039;t - those folks buy cars to get from A to B, and for &#039;potential&#039; mobility.

Now, since the infrastructure of &#039;the internets&#039; is available pretty much anywhere, perhaps it&#039;s only a matter of time until folks give up their resource-intensive tools and start working off mass services.

Or not.  ;^)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another way to view the situation -</p>
<p>Think of SaaS vs fat licenses as Mass transport vs Cars</p>
<p>If mass transit were available wherever you wanted to go, most folks would be unlikely to buy cars. But since it ain&#8217;t &#8211; those folks buy cars to get from A to B, and for &#8216;potential&#8217; mobility.</p>
<p>Now, since the infrastructure of &#8216;the internets&#8217; is available pretty much anywhere, perhaps it&#8217;s only a matter of time until folks give up their resource-intensive tools and start working off mass services.</p>
<p>Or not.  ;^)</p>
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		<title>By: Christian</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2009/04/12/licensing-on-the-geoweb/#comment-11383</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 09:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=2642#comment-11383</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[regarding desktop licensing: we have a deal with our ESRI reseller that allows us to switch between licensing models (view/editor/info) on a project basis. one month we work with arcinfo, followed by three months where we are fine with arcview only. same with extensions. that licensing model allows us to tailor licensing expenses very well to our projects - not quite SaaS but close, since we only pay what we need per project. 
not sure if it&#039;s 100% ESRI approved what that reseller is doing though...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>regarding desktop licensing: we have a deal with our ESRI reseller that allows us to switch between licensing models (view/editor/info) on a project basis. one month we work with arcinfo, followed by three months where we are fine with arcview only. same with extensions. that licensing model allows us to tailor licensing expenses very well to our projects &#8211; not quite SaaS but close, since we only pay what we need per project.<br />
not sure if it&#8217;s 100% ESRI approved what that reseller is doing though&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: luis</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2009/04/12/licensing-on-the-geoweb/#comment-11382</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[luis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=2642#comment-11382</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nothing is free in a free Country. 

And yes you ALL are still going to this years touchy &quot;I love GIS&quot; UC. 

Me to ESRI Rep.
&quot;I don&#039;t want free passes to your propaganda show aka UC, can I get a better price instead?&quot;

Question:
What makes for an expert in the field? It isn&#039;t because you jumped some dopey hoops and became an GISP and attended every UC in the past 10 years. And the fact that you worked at ESRI tech support does not make you and expert either...

No -  what makes you and expert in the field is the fact that you have made a lot of mistakes with many different products. This fact means you can steer clients away from making those same mistakes and into a product that they will truly use and appreciate. 

And Yes sometimes it&#039;s not a mapping product (Yes I said it - SOMETIMES IT&#039;S NOT A MAPPING PRODUCT)

We all need to go on a ESRI diet. 

Boycott this years UC and spent it learning something non-ESRI instead.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing is free in a free Country. </p>
<p>And yes you ALL are still going to this years touchy &#8220;I love GIS&#8221; UC. </p>
<p>Me to ESRI Rep.<br />
&#8220;I don&#8217;t want free passes to your propaganda show aka UC, can I get a better price instead?&#8221;</p>
<p>Question:<br />
What makes for an expert in the field? It isn&#8217;t because you jumped some dopey hoops and became an GISP and attended every UC in the past 10 years. And the fact that you worked at ESRI tech support does not make you and expert either&#8230;</p>
<p>No &#8211;  what makes you and expert in the field is the fact that you have made a lot of mistakes with many different products. This fact means you can steer clients away from making those same mistakes and into a product that they will truly use and appreciate. </p>
<p>And Yes sometimes it&#8217;s not a mapping product (Yes I said it &#8211; SOMETIMES IT&#8217;S NOT A MAPPING PRODUCT)</p>
<p>We all need to go on a ESRI diet. </p>
<p>Boycott this years UC and spent it learning something non-ESRI instead.</p>
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		<title>By: Archie Belaney</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2009/04/12/licensing-on-the-geoweb/#comment-11381</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Archie Belaney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 15:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=2642#comment-11381</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When you own a market niche (ESRI) or pretty much the whole thing (MSFT), your business model is subservient to the market share you already manage. Think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ULCC instead of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette_boat 

When you&#039;re subservient to your user base, and a revenue stream, changing course is often institutionally impractical (or impossible, if the exec. mgmt are happy with the status quo).

I believe the biggest impediment to price change and adjusted business models is not ESRI in the geospatial trades. I think the barrier is inside the ESRI channel. Implementations companies rely on &#039;hard-to-program-means-more-hours-sold&#039; for a time-sold revenue curve. Perversely, a change to allow &#039;by-the-drink&#039; licensing and SaaS resales effectively breaks the time-sold stream. 

A while ago, a couple companies sprung up to do just this - offer ESRI tools through an ASP model. This was back in the day when the internet was still &#039;kewl&#039;.  The folks at ESRI allowed it to happen, and watched the results. After watching adoption skyrocket at the edges of their customer influence, and seeing the traction the approach was getting, the Redlands folks changed their reseller license pronto. They stepped on that approach fast - and didn&#039;t replace it with anything meaningful - so as not to cannibalize the support streams for themselves and their partners.

ESRI really, really, really likes the renewal stream from all those ELA&#039;s scattered across the community, too.

We can wish, but the Gorilla must eat.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you own a market niche (ESRI) or pretty much the whole thing (MSFT), your business model is subservient to the market share you already manage. Think <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ULCC" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ULCC</a> instead of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette_boat" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette_boat</a> </p>
<p>When you&#8217;re subservient to your user base, and a revenue stream, changing course is often institutionally impractical (or impossible, if the exec. mgmt are happy with the status quo).</p>
<p>I believe the biggest impediment to price change and adjusted business models is not ESRI in the geospatial trades. I think the barrier is inside the ESRI channel. Implementations companies rely on &#8216;hard-to-program-means-more-hours-sold&#8217; for a time-sold revenue curve. Perversely, a change to allow &#8216;by-the-drink&#8217; licensing and SaaS resales effectively breaks the time-sold stream. </p>
<p>A while ago, a couple companies sprung up to do just this &#8211; offer ESRI tools through an ASP model. This was back in the day when the internet was still &#8216;kewl&#8217;.  The folks at ESRI allowed it to happen, and watched the results. After watching adoption skyrocket at the edges of their customer influence, and seeing the traction the approach was getting, the Redlands folks changed their reseller license pronto. They stepped on that approach fast &#8211; and didn&#8217;t replace it with anything meaningful &#8211; so as not to cannibalize the support streams for themselves and their partners.</p>
<p>ESRI really, really, really likes the renewal stream from all those ELA&#8217;s scattered across the community, too.</p>
<p>We can wish, but the Gorilla must eat.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisW</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2009/04/12/licensing-on-the-geoweb/#comment-11380</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ChrisW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 12:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=2642#comment-11380</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dumb question: Isn&#039;t part of the problem also that people tend to get locked into the ESRI (+ SQLServer) stack, instead of being able to mix in compatible alternatives to suit their needs/budget, as we can in mainstream application development?  For example, ArcGIS on the desktop is great (even if the multi-layered licencing is not), but I wonder if so many people would necessarily pay through the nose for ArcServer if they had other options?  The tendency towards lock-in surely reduces the pressure on ESRI to modify its licencing costs/conditions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dumb question: Isn&#8217;t part of the problem also that people tend to get locked into the ESRI (+ SQLServer) stack, instead of being able to mix in compatible alternatives to suit their needs/budget, as we can in mainstream application development?  For example, ArcGIS on the desktop is great (even if the multi-layered licencing is not), but I wonder if so many people would necessarily pay through the nose for ArcServer if they had other options?  The tendency towards lock-in surely reduces the pressure on ESRI to modify its licencing costs/conditions.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerhard</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2009/04/12/licensing-on-the-geoweb/#comment-11379</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerhard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=2642#comment-11379</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I also like Manifold very much. Especially the long history of database support without middleware is very important.  The webserver is nice and easy.  I also like the spatial SQL-extensions. 

But there are also some drawbacks:
*) The cartographic possibilities of Manifold are quite limited.  
*) Linear referencing with measures is not supported 
*) 3D-display features are not really satisfactory
*) I am missing full datum transformation support

For my specific needs this means, that I need ArcInfo AND Manifold and the situation still remains quite unsatisfactory.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also like Manifold very much. Especially the long history of database support without middleware is very important.  The webserver is nice and easy.  I also like the spatial SQL-extensions. </p>
<p>But there are also some drawbacks:<br />
*) The cartographic possibilities of Manifold are quite limited.<br />
*) Linear referencing with measures is not supported<br />
*) 3D-display features are not really satisfactory<br />
*) I am missing full datum transformation support</p>
<p>For my specific needs this means, that I need ArcInfo AND Manifold and the situation still remains quite unsatisfactory.</p>
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		<title>By: wah</title>
		<link>http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2009/04/12/licensing-on-the-geoweb/#comment-11378</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 00:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/?p=2642#comment-11378</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[from reading the comments it doesn&#039;t look like the esri business model is &quot;hopelessly broken.&quot;  it looks like they are in fine shape.  a network of dealers who see little alternative to their product - and scorn alternative business models as juvenile or worse -european.  ESRI prices are high enough to cause some whining but not enough to cause you to give up a trip to san diego and some chicken wings for your trouble.  Its the -i&#039;m an esri implementer- consulting business model that&#039;s broken.  its like being an oldsmobile dealer trying to differentiate your dealership.  you can put out balloons on saturdays but the problem is still with the product you are selling.  i&#039;m sure it will all be better with the next service pack ....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>from reading the comments it doesn&#8217;t look like the esri business model is &#8220;hopelessly broken.&#8221;  it looks like they are in fine shape.  a network of dealers who see little alternative to their product &#8211; and scorn alternative business models as juvenile or worse -european.  ESRI prices are high enough to cause some whining but not enough to cause you to give up a trip to san diego and some chicken wings for your trouble.  Its the -i&#8217;m an esri implementer- consulting business model that&#8217;s broken.  its like being an oldsmobile dealer trying to differentiate your dealership.  you can put out balloons on saturdays but the problem is still with the product you are selling.  i&#8217;m sure it will all be better with the next service pack &#8230;.</p>
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